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Ācārya Malcolm Smith's avatar

Unlike Christian or Rabbinical ordination, receiving the three vows does not entitle one to any privilege or empower one to act as a minister. An ordination does both of those things. The importation of the term “ordination”to describe the process of receiving prātimokṣa, bodhisattva, or a vajrayana vows is extremely misleading. So, I stand by may assertion that there is no “ordination” in Buddhism as the term is understood in English. Your argument depends on legal criteria found outside the Dharma, and thus has no legitimacy inside the Dharma. Specifically, it depends on cultural concepts alien to Dharma, and which undermine the Dharma by introducing hierarchical frameworks of entitlement, power, and authority that undermine the true Dharma with the eight worldly concerns. The final flaw in your argument is that you cannot point to a single term in Sanskrit or Pali that might be translatable as “ ordination.’

Ācārya Malcolm Smith's avatar

Your response is characteristic of people who fail to read enough books.

Your only argument does not rest on Buddhist principles. It rests on the legal position of “religions,” tax exemption and other worldly criteria found in Western countries and religions , criteria foreign to Buddhadharma.

There are no ‘lay persons’ among those who hold the three vows, there are only nonrenunciates and renunciates, since the division here is based on which of four kinds of personal liberation vows one elects to hold. Bodhisattvas and mantrins can belong to either group.

And no, there are not four kinds of vows, there are only three, as anyone actually familiar with the literature on vows knows. You ought to bone up on Sapan’s Distinguishing the Three Codes, Ngari Palchen’s Perfect Conduct: Ascertaining the Three Vows, Kongtrul’s Buddhist ethics, and so on.

Finally, I am not sure where you derived your final idea from, but it is strange.

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